No Javascript Fall-back FE #627

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opened 2019-02-12 17:08:45 +00:00 by sunmaid · 18 comments
Member

PL-FE should maintain functionally when JS is disabled, or ship with a functional fall-back FE, as per W3C accessibility standards. Maybe a brutaldon port?

Edit: removed joke and added details from pleroma-fe crosspost

PL-FE should maintain functionally when JS is disabled, or ship with a functional fall-back FE, as per [W3C accessibility standards](https://www.w3.org/wiki/The_principles_of_unobtrusive_JavaScript). Maybe a [brutaldon](https://github.com/jfmcbrayer/brutaldon) port? Edit: removed joke and added details from pleroma-fe crosspost
Member

Use gopher and post with curl uguu

Use gopher and post with curl uguu
Member

lol

lol
Author
Member

that's not web accessible, that's a separate protocol

also please see issue 632....

that's not web accessible, that's a separate protocol also please see [issue 632](https://git.pleroma.social/pleroma/pleroma/issues/632)....
Member

cool, we are not rewriting our frontend just to comply with W3C standarts, it is not like we fully comply with ActivityPub lol

cool, we are not rewriting our frontend just to comply with W3C standarts, it is not like we fully comply with ActivityPub lol
Member

@sunmaid If you really want it: There's also Brutaldon, it's a front-end that works without any JavaScript, also supported by Pleroma's Mastodon-API.

@sunmaid If you really want it: There's also Brutaldon, it's a front-end that works without any JavaScript, also supported by Pleroma's Mastodon-API.
Member

but it's not shipped with Pleromer, Pleromer should have a notice when a browser is too old or at the very least document what browsers are supported somewhere, it's actually an issue for some people with old devices

see

https://pl.smuglo.li/notice/9fjcPuTho55yVcNEtk

but it's not shipped with Pleromer, Pleromer should have a notice when a browser is too old or at the very least document what browsers are supported somewhere, it's actually an issue for some people with old devices see https://pl.smuglo.li/notice/9fjcPuTho55yVcNEtk
Member

@orekix A notice would be sensible, I guess. Though I think the notice issue is rather a Pleroma-FE issue than a Pleroma issue (wrong repo)

@orekix A notice would be sensible, I guess. Though I think *the notice* issue is rather a Pleroma-FE issue than a Pleroma issue (wrong repo)
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@rinpatch not the same thing. if the FE was built for the web, it should've been written to follow web standards; if it wasn't and isn't, it should be an open issue with an intention to eventually resolve

@Toromino brutaldon requires providing their service your login information; and for some reason your email too.

maybe the solution is too port its FE and treat it as the default fall-back when JS is not available. In any case, a fall-back is necessary

sorry didn't realize there was as a separate FE repo

@rinpatch not the same thing. if the FE was built for the web, it should've been written to follow web standards; if it wasn't and isn't, it should be an open issue with an intention to eventually resolve @Toromino brutaldon requires providing their service your login information; and for some reason your email too. maybe the solution is too port its FE and treat it as the default fall-back when JS is not available. In any case, a fall-back is necessary sorry didn't realize there was as a separate FE repo
Member

@sunmaid Set up your own brutaldon, if you don't trust any service. Or just curl on Mastodon-API. There are a lot of ways.

@sunmaid Set up your own brutaldon, if you don't trust any service. Or just curl on Mastodon-API. There are a lot of ways.
Member

@orekix @sunmaid well sorry, but currently there is no one on the dev team interested in rewriting our entire frontend because of people with browsers older than Elixir itself. If someone wants to do it – sure, we will help with code reviews and probably even merge it

@orekix @sunmaid well sorry, but currently there is no one on the dev team interested in rewriting our entire frontend because of people with browsers older than Elixir itself. If someone wants to do it – sure, we will help with code reviews and probably even merge it
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Age isn't the only issue. Many people disable JS for security or bandwidth optimization reasons. This only presents a problem with sites designed following bad practices.

I moved the issue over to pleroma-fe.

Edit: was closed, said it belongs in main repo.

Age isn't the only issue. Many people disable JS for security or bandwidth optimization reasons. This only presents a problem with sites designed following bad practices. I moved the issue over to pleroma-fe. Edit: was closed, said it belongs in main repo.
Member
@sunmaid > many people https://blockmetry.com/blog/javascript-disabled
Author
Member

@rinpatch you misunderstood where the emphasis of that sentence lies. I meant that the reasons a user would have JS disabled include security and optimization as well as outdated browsers.

If you're trying to suggest the portion of PL users who would prefer non JS is too small to be relevant based on that statistic, you would have to consider PL users are a much more specific userbase than the internet as a whole, and one generally technically literate that they would have optimization, privacy & security as concerns as well as basic web standards-compliance such that non JS would be common; evidenced by it being fairly commonly discussed as well as browsers that don't support it, e.g. qutebrowser, and the general instance use rate of gopher support, etc. I'm certainly not the only person to have requested or noted the lack of a non JS FE.

@rinpatch you misunderstood where the emphasis of that sentence lies. I meant that the reasons a user would have JS disabled include security and optimization as well as outdated browsers. If you're trying to suggest the portion of PL users who would prefer non JS is too small to be relevant based on that statistic, you would have to consider PL users are a much more specific userbase than the internet as a whole, and one generally technically literate that they would have optimization, privacy & security as concerns as well as basic web standards-compliance such that non JS would be common; evidenced by it being fairly commonly discussed as well as browsers that don't support it, e.g. qutebrowser, and the general instance use rate of gopher support, etc. I'm certainly not the only person to have requested or noted the lack of a non JS FE.
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If the status of this issue is "it's worthwhile but no one is currently interested in doing the work needed" then should it not remain open?

If the status of this issue is "it's worthwhile but no one is currently interested in doing the work needed" then should it not remain open?
Member

@sunmaid thats not what we were saying.

This is something that could be merged in if someone wants to write it, but isnt an actual issue or bug. So what you need is to write it yourself, or convince someone else to and do a merge request.

If such a change needed something in core pleroma to change in order to function - THAT would be an issue you could open to unblock the MR.

Does that make sense?

@sunmaid thats not what we were saying. This is something that could be merged in if someone wants to write it, but isnt an actual issue or bug. So what you need is to write it yourself, or convince someone else to and do a merge request. If such a change needed something in core pleroma to change in order to function - THAT would be an issue you could open to unblock the MR. Does that make sense?
Owner

orekix:

but it's not shipped with Pleromer, Pleromer should have a notice when a browser is too old or at the very least document what browsers are supported somewhere, it's actually an issue for some people with old devices
see
https://pl.smuglo.li/notice/9fjcPuTho55yVcNEtk

If regular mastodon works then mastofe works, also this isn’t really a device issue but more like a software issue (A similar one exists with SailfishOS because mozembed got killed and their WebKit version is antic).
And this kind of issue can be resolved by having a client or something like brutaldon (which we won’t bundle).

And yeah this issue is closed as WONTFIX, at least for now. Having to maintain yet another interface would be too much work and is outside of the scope of the backend.

orekix: > but it's not shipped with Pleromer, Pleromer should have a notice when a browser is too old or at the very least document what browsers are supported somewhere, it's actually an issue for some people with old devices > see > https://pl.smuglo.li/notice/9fjcPuTho55yVcNEtk If regular mastodon works then mastofe works, also this isn’t really a device issue but more like a software issue (A similar one exists with SailfishOS because mozembed got killed and their WebKit version is antic). And this kind of issue can be resolved by having a client or something like brutaldon (which we won’t bundle). And yeah this issue is closed as WONTFIX, at least for now. Having to maintain yet another interface would be too much work and is outside of the scope of the backend.
Author
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@Dielan @lanodan I see, thanks

@Dielan @lanodan I see, thanks
Member

@sunmaid, if you have any issues using brutaldon with Pleroma or integrating brutaldon with a Pleroma instance you host, please let me know. I would be happy to help with making brutaldon installable alongside the standard frontends.

@sunmaid, if you have any issues using brutaldon with Pleroma or integrating brutaldon with a Pleroma instance you host, please let me know. I would be happy to help with making brutaldon installable alongside the standard frontends.
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